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The failure of PIE Inc.

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Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.19 18:16:00 - [1] Whilst we have not launched a formal investigation, a number of questions were indeed asked, and I can confirm that No.Mercy did respond to those questions. I have also previously suggested that Quebec Power privately send me the details of the proof which they claim to possess. However, as of this moment, they have not done so. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.20 09:34:00 - [2] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 20/11/2009 09:35:39 Originally by: ChipMo If PIE openly take responsibility for the diplomacy then they should see it through. If they are not prepared to look into the issue they should never have said they would in the first place. If we say that we're going to do something, then of course we should. But just because we've not given you an answer does not mean that an answer does not exist. Please point me to where I've said that the results of my enquiries would be made public. You see, I've always believed that in general diplomatic discussions should be confidential, but clearly SF disagree with me on that. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.20 13:18:00 - [3] Originally by: ChipMo PIE's coverup... And what exactly are we supposed to be covering up? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.20 20:40:00 - [4] Originally by: Ralnik This is of course failure of PIE, for not publicly denoucing No.Mercy's actions and removing Garst from the running in their best Amarrios Awards Why would we denounce No.Mercy when there is essentially no evidence against them? And have you even looked at the selection criteria for the Amarrian Capsuleer of the Year and some of the other names that have been nominated? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.20 22:15:00 - [5] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 20/11/2009 22:18:20 Originally by: Ralnik Originally by: Rodj Blake Originally by: Ralnik This is of course failure of PIE, for not publicly denoucing No.Mercy's actions and removing Garst from the running in their best Amarrios Awards Why would we denounce No.Mercy when there is essentially no evidence against them? And have you even looked at the selection criteria for the Amarrian Capsuleer of the Year and some of the other names that have been nominated? There is plenty of evidence against him YOU just choose to ignore it. The POS KM's were posted. screen shots from No.Mercy's private forum showing Garsts own words on this subject have been posted. Yes, I've seen the killmails. But what does that prove? It proves that there was fighting. And that's not in doubt. What the debate centres around is why the fighting was happening. In fact, if you look at the leaked information, you'll find that Garst specifically states there that the declaration against Quebec was not a random one, and was not intended as an act of piracy. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.21 09:39:00 - [6] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 21/11/2009 09:39:57 So what you're essentially saying Jade is that when somebody is accused of something, it's up to them to prove beyond all doubt that they are innocent. For a moment I was surprised by this. But then I remembered that you're someone who simultaneously claims to be against the holding of territory and declares that territory-holding entities are amongst your allies, so your thought processes clearly aren't the same as mine. Consider the following: access was gained to the record of No.Mercy's internal discussions. That would be pretty much everything that they'd talked about since the corporation was founded. Even though No.Mercy are a relatively young corporation, that's going to be a lot of internal debate. Given this, if No.Mercy were really involved in piracy, don't you think that the evidence for it would have been a little bit more damning? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.21 14:26:00 - [7] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 21/11/2009 14:29:41 Originally by: Jade Constantine The evidence was completely damning. Garst Tyrell was seen to rally his corpmates to an attack on a neutral industrial alliance so they could loot their tower for salvaged booty. There is no justification given beyond fiscal motive and his own corp members are unaware of any "righteous" motive - its all about the isk. It takes effort to be as blind to this issue as you are being Rodj so I'll ask you once again. Many PIE officers fund their activites through combat with their enemies. I'm sure that many Star Fraction pilots do likewise. There is nothing wrong with that. And if you look at the leaked data, that is what was being talked about. You see, the comments pretty much all relate to combat that took place after the conflict had started. From what I can tell, there's not much information regarding No.Mercy's discussions before the conflict. The issue at hand is not the method by which Garst rallied his troops, but his motive in declaring war. If I recall correctly the only time piracy is mentioned in the excerpts is when Garst says that if he wanted to become a pirate he'd take the corp into 0.0 and do it there. Now, you may consider that to be damning evidence of piracy, but then I understand that reading comprehension has long been a neglected topic in Federation schools. Quote: Do you believe that Quebec Industrial alliance is an enemy of the Amarrian empire and has been materially-aiding the Minmatar war effort? If yes then I'd ask you to produce some substantive proof as to why this is. If No then I'd ask you why you believe Garst's isk-driven wardec motive to loot their towers isn't simply opportunistic NBSI piracy? I don't know anything about this "Quebec Industrial" alliance, but I have had No.Mercy's casus belli against Quebec Power explained to me, and it does make a certain amount of sense. As I have previously said, I'm not someone who goes public with the details of private diplomatic conversations (unlike SF), and so I shall not be divulging the specifics at this time. If you still have any questions regarding No.Mercy's reasons for the war, I suggest that you direct them to the senior members of that corp, rather than using your ignorance of the facts of this matter to attempt to continue the long running SF smear campaign against PIE. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.21 15:24:00 - [8] I have had No.Mercy's casus belli against Quebec Power explained to me, and it does make a certain amount of sense. As I have previously said, I'm not someone who goes public with the details of private diplomatic conversations (unlike SF), and so I shall not be divulging the specifics at this time. If you still have any questions regarding No.Mercy's reasons for the war, I suggest that you direct them to the senior members of that corp, rather than using your ignorance of the facts of this matter to attempt to continue the long running SF smear campaign against PIE. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.21 16:09:00 - [9] The apparent issue of a ransom demand, if true, does indeed alter the situation. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.21 23:01:00 - [10] If I didn't know any better Bliss, I'd swear that you and Jade were trying to do the old good cop / bad cop thing. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.25 15:06:00 - [11] Originally by: Gabriel Darkefyre Do the Leadership of PIE consider Garst Tyrell to be a suitable Candidate for the Loyalist of the Year Award based upon these actions? You can infer what you like from the shortlist when it is published. Apart from that, I'm not sure if it would be appropriate for a PIE director to comment on the suitability of any one specific nominee. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.25 15:49:00 - [12] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 25/11/2009 15:49:44 Originally by: Gabriel Darkefyre Originally by: Rodj Blake Originally by: Gabriel Darkefyre Do the Leadership of PIE consider Garst Tyrell to be a suitable Candidate for the Loyalist of the Year Award based upon these actions? You can infer what you like from the shortlist when it is published. Apart from that, I'm not sure if it would be appropriate for a PIE director to comment on the suitability of any one specific nominee. Thank You for your Reply, Pilot Blake, while the reply is the best that I could realistically expect given the circumstances it is far better than the alternative which would have been Silence followed by the Matter being quietly brushed under the Carpet. I look forward to seeing the Shortlist. For many Pilots, this award is seen as spotlighting the Very Best of Amarrian Loyalists. Those who, in both act and deed, exemplify what it means to be Amarrian and provide a shining example for others to try to emulate. Indeed, and I would like to remind everyone that we have another two days until nominations close, so there is still time for people to have their say and see the people who they think have done the most for the Empire be considered for an award. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.25 19:27:00 - [13] Originally by: Jade Constantine And you continue to excuse his actions after his exit by accepting his nomination to your amarr-of-the-year competition. We've also accepted nominations this year for a pilot in the SF and a pilot in the Minmatar militia. So I guess that by your logic that means that we're also Shakorite anarchists? The rules for nominations are clear. What would it say about us if we changed them as whim dictated? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.27 09:48:00 - [14] Originally by: The Cosmopolite You see, people don't expect you to do anything to actually right the wrong here. I don't. I doubt Jade does. I would be surprised if anyone does. But this is a former PIE pilot and a militia commander. This is an Amarrian militia corporation. This is a pilot who has commanded fleets containing PIE pilots while he has been doing this sort of thing. PIE pilots were present in the fleet that attacked our starbase which all attest was under the direct command of Garst Tyrell. People would be justified in concluding, in the absence of comment from PIE, that PIE and its pilots are happy to see Tyrell engage in his activities. Indeed, given PIE pilots have been in fleets he has commanded, people would be justified, in the absence of a clear statement otherwise, to conclude that PIE pilots might themselves engage in this sort of thing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the allegations against No.Mercy made after the destruction of your POS? So what are you suggesting here? That we should determine who we fly with based on what will happen in the future? Does anybody else see a small problem with that? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.28 10:06:00 - [15] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 28/11/2009 10:11:30 Originally by: The Cosmopolite By the by, partially in response to you, Blake, and partially in response to the racketeer Tyrell, if you wish to state that no PIE pilots have flown in unified Amarr militia fleets under the command of the thug Tyrell since he formed No Mercy, and most especially during and after the Battle for Space and Freedom Starbase, I will take your word for it. Once again, I'd like to point out to you that the allegations against No.Mercy were made after the battle. I'm a little curious why you want me to state that PIE won't fly in the same gang as an alleged pirate, especially when just yesterday an SF pilot was observed operating in the same gang as someone much more likely to be a pirate than Garst Tyrell. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.28 15:40:00 - [16] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 28/11/2009 15:40:52 Originally by: The Cosmopolite You should not be curious about that because that is not what I have asked about. I'll be the one to decide what I will or will not be curious about, thank you very much. And right now, I'm curious about an SF pilot flying in the same gang as a member of a pirate corp. Will there be an investigation into this apparent breach of SF policy? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.28 16:25:00 - [17] Originally by: The Cosmopolite Gaven Lok'ri says: Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri But I will make a strong claim: PIE has in the past and will continue to fly beside those who are of a less savory character in the defense of the Empire. The Star Fraction has long said that in a roughly similar manner we will fly alongside those who differ with us in the fight against mutual enemies. Do you agree with Gaven Lok'ri that this longstanding policy is reasonable in pursuit of one's goals? The Cosmopolite Personally, I consider anyone not Amarrian to be a little bit unsavoury, but sometimes one has to lower one's standards slightly in pursuit of a higher aim. There are of course degrees of savouryness or the lack thereof, and clearly there's a line that has to be drawn somewhere. So whilst at times circumstances might dictate that we find ourselves working with pilots who don't have a whiter than white background, our pilots wouldn't gang themeselves up with members of the sort of alliance that sits in a system like Egghelende attacking random ships. Unlike Star Fraction. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.28 17:42:00 - [18] Originally by: Jade Constantine I cannot see Star Fraction pilots deciding to adopt convenient NBSI from simple paranoia. Unlike PIE A prior link between the pilot in question an Star Fraction has been determined. As you are well aware. Quote: I cannot see Star Fraction pilots prepared to fly under the command of pirate wolfheads like Garst Tyrell. Unlike PIE. As you are well aware, PIE has conducted an investigation into the activities of No.Mercy, and will be notifying involved parties as appropriate. Furthermore, the allegations against No.Mercy pale into insignificance next to the piratical actions of the Black Rabbits and the Dead Terrorists and are roughly on a par with the brand of extortionism championed by none other than The Star Fraction Quote: And I particularly cannot see the Star Fraction prepared to entertain the notion of providing said rogues with a prize for their accomplishments in ransoming neutral industrial alliances and committing acts of piracy against innocents. Unlike PIE. And as you undoubtedly know, PIE nominated none of the pilots on those lists. If you object so much to Garst being nominated, then perhaps you should have spoken to those pilots who did nominate him. Now that we've cleared those issues up yet again, perhaps you can provide me with an explanation as to why one of your pilots was observed yesterday flying in the same gang as a member of a pirate alliance? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.28 18:22:00 - [19] Originally by: Jade Constantine Edited by: Jade Constantine on 28/11/2009 18:16:42 Originally by: Rodj Blake Now that we've cleared those issues up yet again, perhaps you can provide me with an explanation as to why one of your pilots was observed yesterday flying in the same gang as a member of a pirate alliance? You haven't cleared anything up. Your explanations are not sufficient. Whereas the Cosmopolite has already addressed the issue with your Armageddon being blown to pieces yesterday by a Star Fraction pilgrim providing a cyno for a Dead Terrorist Thanatos. Read again and try to let it sink in this time. Thank you for confirming this. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.28 18:34:00 - [20] Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Rodj Blake Thank you for confirming this. Something tells me your own ship systems should have done that while registering the imminent collapse of structural integrity under weapons fire. We have always been prepared to help -10s destroy -10s and prioritize regressive imperialist dogs on the targetting lists. The confirmation that I was referring to was your confirmation of The Cosmopolite's interpretation of your policy. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.28 18:55:00 - [21] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 28/11/2009 18:55:51 Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Rodj Blake The confirmation that I was referring to was your confirmation of The Cosmopolite's interpretation of your policy. I hardly see why it needed further confirmation. Our policy has always been entirely clear. Unlike your own "flexible NBSI depending on the paranoia of the individual pilot" policy in PIE inc. Really Rodj, there is a reason this thread is called the "failure of PIE" rather than the "failure of SF" and thats because our principles are both consistent and honest. Two attributes you have entirely lost sight of yourselves. Conistent? Honest? Star Fraction? The only thing that's consistent about you is your hypocrisy. For example, we have that thing about Star Fraction being opposed to the holding of territory whilst openly describing a territorial alliance as an ally. Or those times that you claimed that your alliance was anti-slavery whilst having well known slave-owners as a member or in your bed. And there are more. I'm sure that everyone here has their own favourite example. As for honesty, do you really want me to list some previous lies that have come from SF, just in case thre's anyone about who might not be aware of them? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.28 19:01:00 - [22] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 28/11/2009 19:02:02 Originally by: Jade Constantine I am honestly not at all sure that Rodj Blake isn't a member of a pirate corporation any longer. After all. He is happy to cooperate with pirates to attack non-pirates himself. If someone who co-operates with pirates to attack non-pirates is themself a pirate, and given that both you and The Cosmopolite have confirmed that SF co-operates with pirates to attack non-pirates, then doesn't it follow that SF are pirates? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.28 19:07:00 - [23] I'm simply following your logic through to its natural conclusion, m'dear. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.28 19:31:00 - [24] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 28/11/2009 19:32:50 Edited by: Rodj Blake on 28/11/2009 19:32:37 Originally by: Jade Constantine Edited by: Jade Constantine on 28/11/2009 19:27:04 Originally by: Rodj Blake I'm simply following your logic through to its natural conclusion, m'dear. You are chopping and cutting quotes out of context and answering only what suits you. Address the entire post or address none of it - its quite simple. Really, Jade. I'm sure that with very little effort I could find a whole load of recent posts of yours where you only answer part of a post. The reason I only answered part of your post was because the rest wasn't particularly relevant. Quote: I've stated my belief that I don't know what kind of corp you are anymore Rodj Blake. You've allowed doubts to arise and done nothing to address them. Squirting inky juvenile evasions like some kind of an incontinent squid does nothing to improve your reputation at this point. Actually, if you read my posts on the matters at hand, you'll find that all doubts have either been addressed or are in the process of being addressed. Of course, I don't expect you to accept that, since my statements don't fit in with your agenda. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.

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